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Topic: Training or workshops
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jmNZ



Joined: Jun 13, 2019
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Jun 13, 2019 9:17 AM    Post subject: Training or workshops

I have searched the forum and BioEra's website and have found no reference to training opportunities on use of the programme and its mathematical applications such as those in ExpressionEvaluator.
Does anyone know of any scheduled courses, preferably in Europe?
jarek



Joined: Oct 22, 2007
Posts: 838

PostPosted: Jun 13, 2019 9:50 AM    Post subject:

The best way to learn BioEra is to analyze examples, read manual and experiment with modifications to understand how they work. And ask questions here when something not clear (the manual is in many ways incomplete).
GMartin



Joined: Feb 5, 2010
Posts: 299

PostPosted: Jun 13, 2019 2:51 PM    Post subject:

I have not offered courses but have offered support and design creations to a bunch of users. If you are interested please email me back channel and we can try to set some times to email, talk, or screen share.


George Martin

nsnfb@icloud.com
gm@northstarneurofeedback.net
jmNZ



Joined: Jun 13, 2019
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Jun 14, 2019 3:01 PM    Post subject:

Dear George,
Many thanks for your kind offer, in which I am very interested.
I am currently on a steep learning curve with a visiting computer-literate friend.
If I become enlightened enough to pose intelligent questions yet encounter further difficulties, I shall certainly be in touch.
Regards,
John Marks.
jmNZ



Joined: Jun 13, 2019
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Dec 1, 2020 12:16 PM    Post subject:

I have made some progress with the help of computer-literate friends and a few on this forum such as George Martin and Jarek Foltynski.
But they can only go so far, given the limitations of the forum.
What is urgently needed is a comprehensive textbook on the design and use of BioEra. So many software programmes have good manuals published on their use, why can't BioEra?
And don't refer me to proatech's online manual: that may serve as an index to a proper book but is otherwise almost completely useless for learning functionality and applications.
An example of the problems is the peculiar consequences of the 'load design' box which critically but ambiguously offers 'save current design' options but one has no idea what is being saved nor where and previous designs vanish into thin air! It's no good providing an ad hoc answer to this because similar such questions are multiplied a thousand-fold. It requires a systematic laid-out book on the internal structure, icons, method, etc., etc., of the programme.
It's high time a system so widely used had a worthwhile book to learn from since no-one seems able to provide workshops of any kind even online, let alone in real time at a venue.
What is the matter with this firm?
Do they want to lose all those who would use their product?
jarek



Joined: Oct 22, 2007
Posts: 838

PostPosted: Dec 1, 2020 3:57 PM    Post subject:

BioEra is a development system, not an end-to-end product. Which means there is unlimited number of ways how it can be used. No single tutorial or a book can cover that and be good enough for everyone. I have worked with many different companies and developers, they all have very different ways of doing things and thinking. Every time questions are different.

On top of that BioEra changes rapidly. Even the manual is very incomplete. That is why this forum exists to fill in any gaps or address questions anyone might have.

So you need to have either good technical skills, preferably with some programming experience and a will to experiment and learn from examples and your own modifications. Or ask someone else to do this for you.
jmNZ



Joined: Jun 13, 2019
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Dec 1, 2020 4:53 PM    Post subject: Training or workshops

This is a very disappointing reply, Jarek.
I am sitting on a large amount of very rich data but, having retired, I do not have ready access to nor finance for computer technicians to do the analyses for me.
I am not averse to doing the work myself but the very least BioEra could do is provide an album of icons, how to connect them, how the saving mechanism works, etc., etc. I don't doubt that everyone does things differently and thinks differently, nor that they all have different questions. Even if these change or one changes them oneself, there must be a basic pattern and plan by which this is done and which could be easily explained in a book or video. It is simply not the case that the technical elements couldn't be easily set out, from which the development system - well, develops. The forum is totally inadequate for this as you must realize.
I am not asking for gold nor a nanny, just a simple guide to the elements upon which BioEra works such as the variety of units, how they are connected, and particularly the operating system governing the planning and saving of designs. This should not be too much to ask. And I think you, for example, could write one.
GMartin



Joined: Feb 5, 2010
Posts: 299

PostPosted: Dec 1, 2020 10:44 PM    Post subject:

quoted

An example of the problems is the peculiar consequences of the 'load design' box which critically but ambiguously offers 'save current design' options but one has no idea what is being saved nor where and previous designs vanish into thin air!
......................................................
This is the type of question that an easily be answered on the forum, it is specific enough to lend itself to ananswer.
Save current design simply saves the design that is currently loaded, along with any changes that may have been made. It is saved on the same path as the old design.

You mention having a lot of data. What kind of data is it and how are you wanting to process it. It is by supplying this specific information and asking specific questions that the answer will come to you.

I learned by tearing apart the example designs to see what each did and what each component or a design was for. I pestered Jarek and the forum may times for answers. The manual was helpful if I searched it for key words. Jarek was alway supply the specific answer I was looking for and at times was kind enough to produce a snippet fro me to to look have a snippet I had created.

The manual was helpful if I searched it for key words. Looking up elements that I saw in designs.


I would still be interested in a video chat with a group of people who might be interested and who would put forth specific questions to be answered
jmNZ



Joined: Jun 13, 2019
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Dec 2, 2020 4:33 AM    Post subject: Training or workshops

Dear George,
Many thanks for your helpful and constructive reply.
Yes, I am aware that it saves the "current" i.e. altered design, but the then the original ('old') design is gone. That is just one of innumerable such quirks and I would occupy the whole forum, boring everyone with my avalanche of questions, were I to seek all the answers here.
But you have been very helpful, George. I did look at your little video with profit and I thank you for it. I haven't got back to you yet because I wished to make a little more progress and not bog you down with elementary problems. I have resolved to painstakingly go through all the elements in the manual, click and find the icon, copy it, then paste its explanation from the manual next to it, plus a tabulation of the properties, etc., it throws up as required, i.e. to do the legwork that someone at BioEra interested in their customers, might easily have done. I still have no idea how to create the 'buttons' on icons for connections but I hope that will appear in due course as I plough through them.
You ask about the data. These are EDF recordings of eyes-open and eyes-closed of resting EEGs of eighty subjects, complete with their corresponding CANOE psychometries. The eighty subjects comprise sixty psychology undergraduates (presumed 'normal'!) and twenty psychology outpatients (presumed 'abnormal') on no drugs. I seek correlations between the CANOE scores and any parameters (or combinations thereof) of the EEGs. My hypothesis is that there exists a relationship between some parameter(s) of the EEG and the CANOE psychometry scores.
This, as you might know, is a rich and unusual data stash.
Yes, like you, I'll be "tearing apart designs" - if I can learn to build them and alter them in the first place! And yes, Jarek is very good at answering focused, targeted questions. Unfortunately, my needs are far broader!
Needless to say, George, I would be very interested in a group chat on video, especially demonstrations such as you began in the video you kindly sent me.
Thanks again for your continued interest.
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