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andraderenew · Joined: Apr 12, 2021 Posts: 10

I don't know how to connect via OSC with Muse to Bioera. I do find OSC although I don't know what to connect it to? And then if I have to configure something else besides port.

jarek · Joined: Oct 22, 2007 Posts: 1049

I don't know anything about OSC, or if it is even possible to use it to connect with BioEra.

andraderenew · Joined: Apr 12, 2021 Posts: 10

I have the choice of using OSC to receive data from muse device in Element > new > OSC receiver. Now the question is where can I connect that? is there any tutorial? May be I'm wrong but it should be possible.

jarek · Joined: Oct 22, 2007 Posts: 1049

Are you talking about OpenSoundReceiver element?

This element only receives data. So the main configuration is in the OSC client which sends the data. In order to see if BioEra element receives anything, try to connect it a 'Debugger' element and watch the console (start BioEra with Console).

andraderenew · Joined: Apr 12, 2021 Posts: 10

Sorry to ask such naive questions but I don't know how to make this work. I tried to link OSC to Debugger elements. Still I can click on play of course the thing is when I have to check what it prints to console I cannot do that. I open the console and it doesn't allow me to have both the program and the console opened.

jarek · Joined: Oct 22, 2007 Posts: 1049

When you are opening BioEra (from program menu), select "BioEra (console)". This should open 1 console window and 1 designer window and 1 Runtime window (by default).

So when you start a design by pressing "Play" button on the Designer window, you should be then able to switch focus to the console window (no need to start anything else at that time) and see what is printed there.

andraderenew · Joined: Apr 12, 2021 Posts: 10

when I open Bioera I see 3 windows you mention but when I open new design I only see 2 windows (my guess they are designer because I can click on play and also another gray window without anything on it).

jarek · Joined: Oct 22, 2007 Posts: 1049

How do you open this new design? Do you click on menu 'System' and then 'Load Design' ?

You should be able to see the console with any design just as you see it when you start BioEra. Assuming you have a BioEra version which comes directly from us. If you bought BioEra from other vendors, they may have modified it.

andraderenew · Joined: Apr 12, 2021 Posts: 10

sorry it took so long to answer back. It does work as in the debugger. And also I can paly sounds with midi. Although I must aknowledge I don't know how to connect different elements to make a specific design. Is there any documentation?

After I use OpenSoundControl that does give me all the volts values for all the channels (4) in Muse device. I can connect to many elements. But for example the polygraph doesn't show the EEG. Just some quick peaks.

Where to start? If I am committing to buy bioera then I must be certain I can make it work.

jarek · Joined: Oct 22, 2007 Posts: 1049

The best way to learn is to analyze the examples which come with BioEra (or others available for download). Some of them do use the Polygraph, so you should be able to do find out how it works there.

Then try to create small designs of your own and experiment with each type of Element.

The BioEra manual should help with finding more detailed info about individual elements:
http://bioera.net/manual.html

The manual is a reference rather than a tutorial.

You can test everything in small designs using the Trial version. Make sure it works for you as expected before you order BioEra Pro.

andraderenew · Joined: Apr 12, 2021 Posts: 10

do you know anyway for the first step? connecting OSC receiver to something else?

I come up with fourier transform or polypgraph but I don't know what is in between

imagine I would like to show all the values of EEG which way to go?

jarek · Joined: Oct 22, 2007 Posts: 1049

Start with something simple. For example connect it to Oscilloscope, set the signal range and see your signal.

If you don't see anything, try something even simpler like NumericDisplay, connect it directly to the OSC output.

If you still don't see anything, then something may be wrong with the data transfer from the device. I don't have Muse here so I can't try this.

andraderenew · Joined: Apr 12, 2021 Posts: 10

Thanks a lot!!

EMebane · Joined: Apr 15, 2019 Posts: 98

Andraderenew: You may be trying to use Scalar elements. When you get the New Element window open, try searching for F_OpenSoundReceiver. All the other elements should also be Float elements.

Also note that the time settings for elements seem to be in Samples not Seconds, so to get things to work I had to set the duration of the Oscilloscopes and VectorDisplays to 1000 to display a few seconds of data at a time.

The waveforms are square waves. I'm not sure if the Muse or MindMonitor app is the reason for this.

The fourth set of data is from the right temporal area. Something seems to be wrong with the data, based on that Spectrogram.

I was curious to try this as well, but my Muse Bluetooth connection has become really unstable, turning off every minute or so then reconnecting. Along with the other limitations noted, I don't plan to continue exploring Muse input data with BioEra. I'm not sure if the Muse device or my Android phone are to blame. I believe Muse provides a desktop application that receives a Muse data stream and rebroadcasts it, but I'm not sure what format it uses.

Screenshot: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1U4dLHZAZZmW5dtcJNavksrveUXvW5efU/view?usp=sharing

Design: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1a-qK7yeIOSNSjXm-tegjCfFEbhUHP6Pa/view?usp=sharing

andraderenew · Joined: Apr 12, 2021 Posts: 10

thank you very much for the design!

I might help you with unstable connection with muse. I don't have a clear picture of what you are using though. I connect to UNIX both Linux and Mac OS Big Sur with a BLED dongle 112 for LSL or Mind Monitor for OSC. It is not unstable.

I forgot to ask if you connected with Right Aux electrode or just with the 4 standard electrodes of Muse? Because this 5th electrode is key to different montages for neurofeedback.

EMebane · Joined: Apr 15, 2019 Posts: 98

I didn't connect the Aux electrode, but Mind Monitor does support it and you'd have to test to determine if those values are sent with the primary 4.

How are you converting the signal to LSL? Thanks in advance.

andraderenew · Joined: Apr 12, 2021 Posts: 10

I don't have muse with me right now so I wouldn't be able to try anything but in my experience this Right Aux is sent by mind monitor or LSL with the previous 4. There are many tools for LSL. You have BlueMuse for windows, uvicmuse for Mac, and lslmuse for linux. Also you have another tool that allows recently for this. Petal metrics.

EMebane · Joined: Apr 15, 2019 Posts: 98

Confirmed: Mind Monitor sends 5 channels. The 5th channel doesn't have the wild swings into the lower values, it looks more like the kind of signal we'd expect.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gV22mc25OwJT65WEMzzngAUwnZQkiuK1/view?usp=sharing
Mind Monitor 5 Channel

I have used BlueMuse for sending Muse data to Python. I tried connecting it with the LSL element in BioEra but I don't know how to configure the BioEra element to receive the data.

BlueMuse to BioEra (fail)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WM1bcOiWpGR5UB02WesKidt2AWYql7cr/view?usp=sharing

BlueMuse shows a flawless connection to the Muse, so I think the connectivity problem I have when using Mind Monitor is due to a phone BLE connectivity stability limitation.

Petal looks promising. I tried it in LSL mode and had the same difficulty as BlueMuse. I tried it in OSC mode and it sent data that was cleaner than the MindMonitor data, but the channels may have been reordered and none of the charts responded when I poked the aux electrode (the signal values should have spiked):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11mrqqhbJP1-ro4P8Hi2VdOl_dbFAlslh/view?usp=sharing

BTW: I made extra wet and dry electrodes for using the Auxiliary port on the Muse. See here for info:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CGsimrSyLjyH7mXBcm0LEOw83m-nEqd6ImoSHwTtoJM/edit

andraderenew · Joined: Apr 12, 2021 Posts: 10

I would like to be able to use muse for midi in order to use it for neurofeedback. But some issues are for instance that I can't use the nested nodes from the origin in trial version and also I don't know how to connect muse as in edf reader. But I need to connect from OSC llke in the design before. Althugh I don't know what element is necesary for such connection.

jarek · Joined: Oct 22, 2007 Posts: 1049

Starting from version 4.198 BioEra now supports Muse devices directly. See more info in the manual.

Neuroera · Joined: Oct 2, 2024 Posts: 5